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	<title>Comments on: Virginia Transportation Woes</title>
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	<link>http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/06/30/virginia-transportation-woes/</link>
	<description>Exposing fraud, waste, abuse, and general stupidity</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dark Meaver</title>
		<link>http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/06/30/virginia-transportation-woes/#comment-1053</link>
		<dc:creator>Dark Meaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.commuteroutrage.com/?p=618#comment-1053</guid>
		<description>Good point Judd and I don't deny that they've changed their tune and now have the right view. I will point out that many Dems were opposed to this from the beginning as opposed to having to change just in response to constituent concerns.

I am also all for auditing the VDoT in order to ensure the agency is spending money effectively.  I also believe, however, that this is a cynical ploy by Republicans to finally and belatedly find 'religion' on govt responsibility after response to their plan (for punitive speeding fines) was overwhelmingly negative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point Judd and I don&#8217;t deny that they&#8217;ve changed their tune and now have the right view. I will point out that many Dems were opposed to this from the beginning as opposed to having to change just in response to constituent concerns.</p>
<p>I am also all for auditing the VDoT in order to ensure the agency is spending money effectively.  I also believe, however, that this is a cynical ploy by Republicans to finally and belatedly find &#8216;religion&#8217; on govt responsibility after response to their plan (for punitive speeding fines) was overwhelmingly negative.</p>
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		<title>By: Judd Wiley</title>
		<link>http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/06/30/virginia-transportation-woes/#comment-1052</link>
		<dc:creator>Judd Wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.commuteroutrage.com/?p=618#comment-1052</guid>
		<description>Dark,

Lewis wrote:

"Both parties share the blame for the mess they’ve created, but Republicans in the House have: 'called for an independent audit of the Virginia Department of Transportation, saying they want to make sure the agency is spending money efficiently.' Amen."

If the Republicans initially supported this legislation, and then changed their tune due to voter anger, that's great. That's what legislators should be doing - listening to their constituents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dark,</p>
<p>Lewis wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Both parties share the blame for the mess they’ve created, but Republicans in the House have: &#8216;called for an independent audit of the Virginia Department of Transportation, saying they want to make sure the agency is spending money efficiently.&#8217; Amen.&#8221;</p>
<p>If the Republicans initially supported this legislation, and then changed their tune due to voter anger, that&#8217;s great. That&#8217;s what legislators should be doing - listening to their constituents.</p>
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		<title>By: Dark Meaver</title>
		<link>http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/06/30/virginia-transportation-woes/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator>Dark Meaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.commuteroutrage.com/?p=618#comment-1041</guid>
		<description>http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?ses=071&#38;typ=bil&#38;val=hb3202

Link to legislation and vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?ses=071&amp;typ=bil&amp;val=hb3202" rel="nofollow">http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?ses=071&amp;typ=bil&amp;val=hb3202</a></p>
<p>Link to legislation and vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Dark Meaver</title>
		<link>http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/06/30/virginia-transportation-woes/#comment-1040</link>
		<dc:creator>Dark Meaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.commuteroutrage.com/?p=618#comment-1040</guid>
		<description>Lewis, 

Before you go praising the Republicans for their good work on this issue let me remind you that:

a) A republican, David Albo, is the one who introduced this legislation and

b) The bills passed by 2/3rds in the house and 21 - 18 in the Senate last year when Republicans controlled both chambers.  

Lots of Republicans supported this crap too.  It's only when the voters revolted did they start talking about 'ensuring Virginia's DOT' was being managed properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lewis, </p>
<p>Before you go praising the Republicans for their good work on this issue let me remind you that:</p>
<p>a) A republican, David Albo, is the one who introduced this legislation and</p>
<p>b) The bills passed by 2/3rds in the house and 21 - 18 in the Senate last year when Republicans controlled both chambers.  </p>
<p>Lots of Republicans supported this crap too.  It&#8217;s only when the voters revolted did they start talking about &#8216;ensuring Virginia&#8217;s DOT&#8217; was being managed properly.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis Derkins</title>
		<link>http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/06/30/virginia-transportation-woes/#comment-1035</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Derkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.commuteroutrage.com/?p=618#comment-1035</guid>
		<description>Paul C. –

I think you’re dead wrong on this one.  Those &lt;a href="http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2007/va-drivertax.pdf  " rel="nofollow"&gt;$3000+ tickets weren’t just for speeders&lt;/a&gt;, they also applied to “failing to stop entering a highway," "speeding in excess of 80 mph" (routine in DC area traffic – actually dangerous not to go this fast) or "fail to give proper signal". They also applied to vague things like “drive two vehicles abreast,” “improper control,” “view obstructed,” “drive too fast for conditions”, or, my favorite, “generally”.

Those are just a sample of the 35 violations that could result in those fines (FYI there are also tons of fines that can result in $2000 and $1000+ tickets), and though many are very subjective, the law was written as “shall issue”, not “may issue”.  This leaves a lot of discretion in the hands of a police officer – remember they can ticket you for more than one offense - and resulted in some heinous charges - including stories like a pregnant &lt;a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/11/AR2007081101352_pf.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;woman fined $1150 for speeding to get to the hospital while having labor pains&lt;/a&gt;, (this same article mentions an immigrant having trouble paying bills like Judd references), and an &lt;a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/13/AR2007081300619.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;81 year old woman on a fixed income facing a $1000 fee&lt;/a&gt;.

If the state had been doing this for safety, they would have had more of a leg to stand on, but to pass a bill this Draconian to raise revenues when they are hemorrhaging money they already have is ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul C. –</p>
<p>I think you’re dead wrong on this one.  Those <a href="http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2007/va-drivertax.pdf  " rel="nofollow">$3000+ tickets weren’t just for speeders</a>, they also applied to “failing to stop entering a highway,&#8221; &#8220;speeding in excess of 80 mph&#8221; (routine in DC area traffic – actually dangerous not to go this fast) or &#8220;fail to give proper signal&#8221;. They also applied to vague things like “drive two vehicles abreast,” “improper control,” “view obstructed,” “drive too fast for conditions”, or, my favorite, “generally”.</p>
<p>Those are just a sample of the 35 violations that could result in those fines (FYI there are also tons of fines that can result in $2000 and $1000+ tickets), and though many are very subjective, the law was written as “shall issue”, not “may issue”.  This leaves a lot of discretion in the hands of a police officer – remember they can ticket you for more than one offense - and resulted in some heinous charges - including stories like a pregnant <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/11/AR2007081101352_pf.html" rel="nofollow">woman fined $1150 for speeding to get to the hospital while having labor pains</a>, (this same article mentions an immigrant having trouble paying bills like Judd references), and an <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/13/AR2007081300619.html" rel="nofollow">81 year old woman on a fixed income facing a $1000 fee</a>.</p>
<p>If the state had been doing this for safety, they would have had more of a leg to stand on, but to pass a bill this Draconian to raise revenues when they are hemorrhaging money they already have is ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Judd Wiley</title>
		<link>http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/06/30/virginia-transportation-woes/#comment-1029</link>
		<dc:creator>Judd Wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.commuteroutrage.com/?p=618#comment-1029</guid>
		<description>Paul C,

I think we can all agree that speeding tickets have their place in our society. For instance, I once received a $350 ticket for driving 81 mph in a 65 mph zone on the Mass Pike. $350 is a lot of money, and it definitely hurt me at the time. Let's say your average meal costs $7. That's 50 meals, over 2 weeks worth of food. It was enough of a penalty to cause considerable financial discomfort to me without taking a massive chunk out of my net worth, and was therefore a reasonable punishment. I've never driven more that 10 mph over the speed limit on highways since I received that ticket.

$3,000 for driving 20 mph over the speed limit is outlandish.

The amount is completely unmanageable for many Americans. If your average meal costs $7, that means that you could buy 428 meals for $3,000, or over 20 weeks worth of food. That's approaching half a year's worth of nourishment for many Americans.  A person who makes $10/hour earns $20,800 per year before taxes if he works 40 hours a week for 52 weeks. $3,000 is 14.4% of his yearly gross income, and a much larger percentage of his net income.

And for what? For driving 20 mph over the speed limit? For driving 75 mph in a 55 mph zone, where traffic actually moves along at about 65-70 mph?

Not to mention that the $3,000 price tag wasn't conceived to reduce speeding and increase safety. It was designed to make up for the Virginia state government's inability to manage its budget. This whole thing is an exercise in the government desperately trying to dig itself out of a financial hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul C,</p>
<p>I think we can all agree that speeding tickets have their place in our society. For instance, I once received a $350 ticket for driving 81 mph in a 65 mph zone on the Mass Pike. $350 is a lot of money, and it definitely hurt me at the time. Let&#8217;s say your average meal costs $7. That&#8217;s 50 meals, over 2 weeks worth of food. It was enough of a penalty to cause considerable financial discomfort to me without taking a massive chunk out of my net worth, and was therefore a reasonable punishment. I&#8217;ve never driven more that 10 mph over the speed limit on highways since I received that ticket.</p>
<p>$3,000 for driving 20 mph over the speed limit is outlandish.</p>
<p>The amount is completely unmanageable for many Americans. If your average meal costs $7, that means that you could buy 428 meals for $3,000, or over 20 weeks worth of food. That&#8217;s approaching half a year&#8217;s worth of nourishment for many Americans.  A person who makes $10/hour earns $20,800 per year before taxes if he works 40 hours a week for 52 weeks. $3,000 is 14.4% of his yearly gross income, and a much larger percentage of his net income.</p>
<p>And for what? For driving 20 mph over the speed limit? For driving 75 mph in a 55 mph zone, where traffic actually moves along at about 65-70 mph?</p>
<p>Not to mention that the $3,000 price tag wasn&#8217;t conceived to reduce speeding and increase safety. It was designed to make up for the Virginia state government&#8217;s inability to manage its budget. This whole thing is an exercise in the government desperately trying to dig itself out of a financial hole.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul C.</title>
		<link>http://www.commuteroutrage.com/2008/06/30/virginia-transportation-woes/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.commuteroutrage.com/?p=618#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>I got no freakin' problem with jackholes going 20+ mph over posted speed limits getting gigged for a grand or two.

That's what this  "abusive driver fee", targetted, Lewis.
Not the 5-10mph highway speeder, but those obnoxious, self-centered scofflaws that put us ALL (cyclists, pedestrians AND motorists) at mortal risk.

Though I will agree that it should have also applied to out-of-staters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got no freakin&#8217; problem with jackholes going 20+ mph over posted speed limits getting gigged for a grand or two.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what this  &#8220;abusive driver fee&#8221;, targetted, Lewis.<br />
Not the 5-10mph highway speeder, but those obnoxious, self-centered scofflaws that put us ALL (cyclists, pedestrians AND motorists) at mortal risk.</p>
<p>Though I will agree that it should have also applied to out-of-staters.</p>
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